View Full Version : More Vet Question (enchant-related)
Look! Up in the sky! It's Pogi swooping in to kiss Leilo!
*swoops*
*kisses*
*swoops out*
Thx for the info^^
~ Pogi ~
are there more vet answers coming? =)
<center>Ruben - Guardian of Aden v4.9
Look! Up in the sky! It's Leilo! Swooping in to close a board fight thread!
*swoops*
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More vet answers? Probably not today. But if anything new appears in my inbox for vet answers, I'll swoop on by with it. ;)
-Leilo
It's interesting that the odds of over-enchanting a weapon are better than over-enchanting any armor.
Thanks for the info!
-----
Iamaelf: What is the purpose of the Pot Delay and the AC nerf on all classes but Knights?
captsturm: The potion delay reduce's the "richest player wins" fights.
captsturm: The AC changes were a part of an overall balance change, to ensure the "fighter" class was best at melee combat.
[TheMagician] Take out the extra damage, decrease the amount of extra damage (since non-knights already have fewer HP), or put Immune To Harm in the game.
just wondering you said thats theres like a 25% chance to get a +5 item? i was messing aroung and blew 13 t-s and none went to +5. so are there other was of looking at this?
~Confuesed~
i asked long ago about orc zombies, maybe you can answer it now :P
why do they attack you if you attack a ghoul but they dont help if you attack an orc zombie?... (2 questions, "why do they help ghouls?" and "why dont they help each other?")
and a misc question: i got 2 nzels from ghouls before they dropped the quest items, are they really meant to be that rare? or was i *EHEM* "lucky"?
<center>Ruben - Guardian of Aden v4.9
Look! Up in the sky! It's Leilo! Swooping in to close a board fight thread!
*swoops*
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Leilo, this was the most concise and easiest to understand answer I have seen from a moderator in quite some time. Thank you.
Ken Knight: Hellkat
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Test Elf: TheDamned
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if there is a 0'01% chance of doing X, it is completely possible to do "X" 100 times in a row. conclusion: buy overenchanted items o.o
<center>Ruben - Guardian of Aden v4.9
Look! Up in the sky! It's Leilo! Swooping in to close a board fight thread!
*swoops*
*locks*
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
just wondering you said thats theres like a 25% chance to get a 5 item? i was messing aroung and blew 13 t-s and none went to 5. so are there other was of looking at this?
<hr></blockquote>
Yes, but... it's kind of like flipping a coin. Even if you land heads 127,000 times in a row, it's still a 50/50 chance on the next flip. So basically? It's completely possible to be unlucky 13 times in a row.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
why do they attack you if you attack a ghoul but they dont help if you attack an orc zombie?... (2 questions, "why do they help ghouls?" and "why dont they help each other?")
<hr></blockquote>
Because orc zombies feast on the flesh of ghouls and don't like you killing their food source, and really could care less if you kill other orc zombies. No loyalty among orcs after death and all. Or perhaps survival of the fittest. Or, more likely, because the game just doesn't associate those orc zombies as 'friends' of other orc zombies. ;)
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
and a misc question: i got 2 nzels from ghouls before they dropped the quest items, are they really meant to be that rare? or was i *EHEM* "lucky"?
<hr></blockquote>
I think they're really meant to be that rare. But I'll look it up and see what I find.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
this was the most concise and easiest to understand answer I have seen from a moderator in quite some time.
<hr></blockquote>
Thank you! Especially because I didn't write it! Monitor 21 actually wrote that - and did a great job with it, so I just copied it. Hehe. :)
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Leilo on 10/22/02 03:01 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
most of the time i do, i was just bored and i was quiting. lol, i have gotten before a +8 epm,a +6 Iv, and a +7 kv, but that was 2 tests ago now. so i just wanted to se if i could again. blame me?lol. ttyl
~Confuesed~
Now people can quit bugging us (the boardies) about the +2 on a +5 item :)
we tried to tell them... feel free to swoop in here anytime leilo :) (and say Hi to Mel)
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yes, i see your point. and thank you Leilo
~Confuesed~
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
Because orc zombies feast on the flesh of ghouls and don't like you killing their food source, and really could care less if you kill other orc zombies. No loyalty among orcs after death and all. Or perhaps survival of the fittest. Or, more likely, because the game just doesn't associate those orc zombies as 'friends' of other orc zombies. ;)
<hr></blockquote>
lol great answer o.o
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
I think they're really meant to be that rare. But I'll look it up and see what I find.
<hr></blockquote>
please tell me that something in the code is wrong :P a +1 int, low ac shield cant be SO rare T_T
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
Monitor 21 actually wrote that - and did a great job with it, so I just copied it. Hehe. :)
<hr></blockquote>
thanks Monitor21! (and thanks to Leilo for posting it /images/icons/wink.gif)
btw, you forgot a "/" in one of the quotes :P
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Some amended and/or changed information from previous Vet questions. (It was added earlier to the Public Storage area, but might be of interest on this board too.) :)
-------------------
What is the safe enchant limit for bone/non-Elven/Elven items?
Each item of armor and weapon in Lineage has a “safe” enchant limit; this is the level to which an item can be enchanted with no risk of destroying said item.
-Bone armor has no safe enchant limit; players run the risk of blowing up bone items with the first attempt at enchanting.
-Non-Elven armor has a safe enchant limit of 4; this includes the Bracer, Boots, and Power Gloves.
-The Red Knight’s Hood has a safe enchant limit of 6.
-Elven armor has a safe enchant limit of 6; this includes the Bless of Elm, Elven Helm of Dexterity, and Elven Helm of Constitution.
-Weapons can be safely enchanted to 6.
What are the chances of getting 1/ 2/ 3 when using a Blessed Scroll of Enchant Armor/Weapon?
*Please keep in mind that any time you attempt to enchant past the item’s safe limit, you also have a chance of destroying the item you are attempting to enchant.
Using a Blessed Scroll of Enchant Armor on an item has the chance to improve the AC from 1 to 3, depending on the current enchant status of the item. The higher the existing enchant, the lower the chance of a higher enchant amount.
Examples:
· If an item starts at 0 to 2, you have a 33% chance of increasing by 1, by 2 or by 3.
· If an item starts at 3 to 5, you have a 50% chance of increasing by 1 or by 2.
· If an item starts at 6 to 8, you have a chance of increasing by 1.
· If an item starts at 9 or higher, you have a chance of increasing by 0 or an increasingly smaller chance of increasing by 1, depending on the starting enchant of the armor.
Using a Blessed Scroll of Enchant Weapon on an item has the chance to improve the additional damage dealt from 1 to 3, depending on the current enchant status of the item. The higher the existing enchant, the lower the chance of a higher enchant amount.
Examples:
· If an item starts at 0 to 2, you have a 33% chance of increasing by 1, by 2 or by 3.
· If an item starts at 3 to 5, you have a 50% chance of increasing by 1 or by 2.
· If an item starts at 6 to 8, you have a chance of increasing by 1.
· If an item starts at 9 or higher, you have a chance of increasing by 0 or an increasingly smaller chance of increasing by 1, depending on the starting enchant of the armor.
What is the % chance of over-enchanting armor and weapons?
*Please keep in mind that any time you attempt to enchant past the item’s safe limit, you also have a chance of destroying the item you are attempting to enchant.
Bone armor has no safe enchant limit; players run the risk of destroying bone items with the first attempt at enchanting.
Non-Elven armor has a safe enchant limit of 4; this includes the Bracer, Boots and Power Gloves; the Red Knight’s Hood is an exception to this rule, it can be safely enchanted to 6. The chance to successfully over-enchant non-Elven armor is 1 over the current enchant level:
Examples:
· If a piece of non-Elven armor is safely enchanted to its max safe enchant level of 4, you have a 1 in 4 (25%) chance of enchanting it to 5; you have a 3 in 4 (75%) chance of destroying the item.
· If a piece of non-Elven armor is over-enchanted to 5, you have a 1 in 5 (20%) chance of enchanting it to 6; you have a 4 in 5 (80%) chance of destroying the item.
· If a piece of non-Elven armor is over-enchanted to 6, you have a 1 in 6 (approximately 17%) chance of enchanting it to 7; you have a 5 in 6 (approximately 83%) chance of destroying the item.
Elven armor has a safe enchant limit of 6; this includes the Bless of Elm, Elven Helm of Dexterity, and Elven Helm of Constitution. The chance to successfully over-enchant Elven armor is 1 over the current enchant level:
Examples:
· If a piece of Elven armor is safely enchanted to its max safe enchant level of 6, you have a 1 in 6 (approximately 17%) chance of enchanting it to 7; you have a 5 in 6 (approximately 83%) chance of destroying the item.
· If a piece of Elven armor is over-enchanted to 7, you have a 1 in 7 (approximately 14%) chance of enchanting it to 8; you have a 6 in 7 (approximately 86%) chance of destroying the item.
Weapons have a safe enchant limit of 6. The chance to successfully over-enchant weapons is 1 in 3 (approximately 33%):
Examples:
· If a weapon is safely enchanted to its max safe enchant level of 6, you have a 1 in 3 (approximately 33%) chance of enchanting it to 7; you have a 2 in 3 (approximately 67%) chance of destroying the item.
· If a weapon is over-enchanted to 7, you have a 1 in 3 (approximately 33%) chance of enchanting it to 8; you have a 2 in 3 (approximately 67%) chance of destroying the item.
· If a weapon is over-enchanted to 8, you have a 1 in 3 (approximately 33%) chance of enchanting it to 9; you have a 2 in 3 (approximately 67%) chance of destroying the item.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
Because orc zombies feast on the flesh of ghouls and don't like you killing their food source, and really could care less if you kill other orc zombies. No loyalty among orcs after death and all. Or perhaps survival of the fittest. Or, more likely, because the game just doesn't associate those orc zombies as 'friends' of other orc zombies. ;)
<hr></blockquote>
Reminds me of:
"Yes... it's REALLY a feature in the game. It's to simulate the fact that sometimes there's really big rocks on the ground, like big stones or something... and your character doesnt want to walk on them for fear of hurting his feet... yeah... that's it... and the fact that your game crashes when you enter some doorways is to simulate you having a seizure and blacking out in the game... yeah... that works... AND the ac that gets put on mages, turns to JELLO!!!! it's a new deal we've signed with the makers of Jello... ([censored] we're smart, maybe now we can FINALLY delete that mage class, and no one will even notice!)... oh, did I say that out loud again? DAMMIT!" - quote from NC employee
-cobracommander
Sorry Leilo, I had to, it's pretty funny. I don't mean to make fun of you; you've actually been a lot more informative than most other NC employees. I kinda like you :P Sparing all the mushy stuff though, if the probability of enchanting armor is 1/enchantment, what's the probability of bone armor? It can't be 1/0, 1/1, 1/2, etc. :P Always wondered that.
If a bug is reported and not fixed within a week, it becomes a feature.
Now people can quit bugging us (the boardies) about the +2 on a +5 item :)
-----------------
Ah, relief ... an official answer for all of those non-believers. :)
-----
Iamaelf: What is the purpose of the Pot Delay and the AC nerf on all classes but Knights?
captsturm: The potion delay reduce's the "richest player wins" fights.
captsturm: The AC changes were a part of an overall balance change, to ensure the "fighter" class was best at melee combat.
[TheMagician] Take out the extra damage, decrease the amount of extra damage (since non-knights already have fewer HP), or put Immune To Harm in the game.
ok, this may be stupid, but i think if i followed what leilo said correctly, then zelling/diaing with bzell/dias, is pointless (considering how much money they go for), correct? You might as well just use regular zels/dias, no?
Captain Death - knight, Dep
I'd rather put a bdai on my +5tsu than a dai on my +6.
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a +5 armor has a 50% chance of going +7 with a bzel and a 0% chance with a nzel :)
a +6 armor to go +7 (with the nzel) has only a 1/6 chance.. so 'technically' its still much cheaper to use the b-scrolls
say the +5 armor is 400k and bzels are 400k
1 +5 armor 2 bzels and 1 czel = 1.235mil (assuming the 50% actually works)
6 +5 armors 6 nzels = 3.186mil (assuming the 1/6 worked on cue)
so yes bscrolls save alot :)
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Depends on the item and it's current enchant level. If you've got the nads to zel a +5DSM, wouldn't you at least use a b-zel for that chance at +2?
-----
Iamaelf: What is the purpose of the Pot Delay and the AC nerf on all classes but Knights?
captsturm: The potion delay reduce's the "richest player wins" fights.
captsturm: The AC changes were a part of an overall balance change, to ensure the "fighter" class was best at melee combat.
[TheMagician] Take out the extra damage, decrease the amount of extra damage (since non-knights already have fewer HP), or put Immune To Harm in the game.
Really, everything i've ever b-dai/b-zeled has blow or just gone back or to +6/4 i've never had any luck with blessed zels or dais
~Confuesed~
not true the +7 K-v was all n-zell, but i do have to say i've blow alot ^.^
~Confuesed~
Some of us unfortunate souls just don't have any luck. I've given up on the over-enchant lotto ... unless I happen to have everything I want and a few mil spare in storage, then I might try it again.
-----
Iamaelf: What is the purpose of the Pot Delay and the AC nerf on all classes but Knights?
captsturm: The potion delay reduce's the "richest player wins" fights.
captsturm: The AC changes were a part of an overall balance change, to ensure the "fighter" class was best at melee combat.
[TheMagician] Take out the extra damage, decrease the amount of extra damage (since non-knights already have fewer HP), or put Immune To Harm in the game.
notice the 'ifs' in my post :)
those are the 'costs' IF everything follows its exact chance
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yes true but see i'm someone that had no luck at all with blessed items, i'm not exactly disagreeing, just making a statment ^.^
~Confuesed~
You forgot the 4/5 chance that zel has for blowing that +5armor. It's cheaper to buy the item, because you're never guaranteed to make the item =)
~ Pogi ~
"If an item starts at +3 to +5, you have a 50% chance of increasing by 1 or by 2."
This statement is wrong. You can get +3 from a bzel on a +3 non-elven armor. I know of someone in a pledge I was in who got it. And I believe I've seen it celebrated on global at least one other time.
well most of the time it is cheaper, but someitmes it's fun to see if you can do it yourself. i mean yes you will most likly blow the item but hey oh well it's just a game, right?
~Confuesed~
I've had no luck with bzels on my PG ... always +1. I have been able to make +6 iboots, cop, ts with nzels. I actually will not use a bzel or bdai on anything unless it is uber ... ie PG, TSU, etc. Everything else I will try to nzel or ndai on my own with the hopes of having an extra one to sell off.
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thats exactly how i feel, lol.
~Confuesed~
Lots of posts in this thread. I want my question answered too. :P
If the probability of enchanting armor is 1/enchantment, what's the probability of bone armor? It can't be 1/0, 1/1, 1/2, etc. :P Always wondered that.
If a bug is reported and not fixed within a week, it becomes a feature.
Just a nitpick, but wouldn't you need:
1 +5 armor 2 bzels and 1 czel
or
6 +5 armors *12* nzels
Of course, if that armor isn't elven, you'd need:
2 +5 armor 2 bzels
or
30 +5 armors 36 nzels (1/5 will go to +6 leaving 6 +6 armors of which 1/6 will go to +7)
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
If the probability of enchanting armor is 1/enchantment, what's the probability of bone armor? It can't be 1/0, 1/1, 1/2, etc. :P Always wondered that.
<hr></blockquote>
The chance of enchanting a +0 bone armor safely to +1 is 1 in 2.
The chance of enchanting a +1 bone armor safely to +2 is 1 in 3.
etc.
So if im reading this right, there is really no REAL advantage to using a BZEL/BDAI as opposed to NZEL/ NDAI when an armor / weapon is at current safe enchanment level.
Hmmmm . . . I wonder if the price of BZELS / BDAIS will be moving southward?
hehe
SirrBalrog - PrimalSect - DEP
So bone armor is 1/(enchantment+2)? Thanks.
If a bug is reported and not fixed within a week, it becomes a feature.
So if im reading this right, there is really no REAL advantage to using a BZEL/BDAI as opposed to NZEL/ NDAI when an armor / weapon is at current safe enchanment level.
----------------
Be careful here. This is where many people got hung up before. According to the way you worded it a +4 or +5 non-elven armor cannot get +2, but we've shown many cases where it has ... including a +5 DSM going to +7 after using a b-zel on one of the LC lvl 50+ interviews.
Edit: *Please keep in mind that any time you attempt to enchant past the item’s safe limit, you also have a chance of destroying the item you are attempting to enchant.
Using a Blessed Scroll of Enchant Armor on an item has the chance to improve the AC from 1 to 3, depending on the current enchant status of the item. The higher the existing enchant, the lower the chance of a higher enchant amount.
Examples:
· If an item starts at +0 to +2, you have a 33% chance of increasing by 1, by 2 or by 3.
· If an item starts at +3 to +5, you have a 50% chance of increasing by 1 or by 2.
· If an item starts at +6 to +8, you have a chance of increasing by 1.
· If an item starts at +9 or higher, you have a chance of increasing by 0 or an increasingly smaller chance of increasing by 1, depending on the starting enchant of the armor.
-----
Iamaelf: What is the purpose of the Pot Delay and the AC nerf on all classes but Knights?
captsturm: The potion delay reduce's the "richest player wins" fights.
captsturm: The AC changes were a part of an overall balance change, to ensure the "fighter" class was best at melee combat.
[TheMagician] Take out the extra damage, decrease the amount of extra damage (since non-knights already have fewer HP), or put Immune To Harm in the game.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TheMagician on 10/22/02 05:18 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
true, I didn't make them goto +7 :)
so the cost effectiveness of bscrolls is even better
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sorry nazh but ur statement is wrong... u fergot to include the chance of the item blowing up ^_^. True 50% of the time they will go but they can still blow up ^_^. And why buy the +5armours when u can make...80% of the time i can make +5armours in less then 500k ^_^ which is about the current price for +5normal items. if u buy +5armour(500k) bzel(450k) and it blows up wich is 4/5 and then ur screwed, but the other 1/5 it can go 6 or 7 ^^, the base enchant % still applys lol......
My god that is an anwser!!! ^_^
It will take me years to read it and understand it but that is cool!
Ha well, long answer but clear and easy to understand. All in all was what was suspected from first veteran answers.
About pple getting +2 with bzel on +6 item or +3 on +5 or +3 item, I suspect those are very rare events not taking in count in the answer. Well low probability I won't base my choices on.
Very interesting is the new overzel information we got on bone armor (probably for Bone Helm and Shield too).
50% of geting +1; 33% to get +2, 25% to get +3 are still good probabilities when blowing will cost you much less zel.
but to get a +3 is still about 4% :-).
Thanks for such an informative answer!
So nice to see that not all of the NC employees give the standard cookie-cutter answer.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:[/color]<hr>
But I'll look it up and see what I find.
<hr></blockquote>
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didn't even read my post did ya? just looked at the numbers then replied eh?
see where I put the part that said IF it went 50%... that means that the 2nd one will always got +2 (IF)
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TheCollector
10-22-2002, 09:10 PM
THANK YOU
in all the overenchanting answers, FINALLY the % chance of success on bone stuff. before, all we ever got was "its never safe to enchant" but were never given numbers. ty~
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IM WATHING YOU!
I think you meant mine. Too late to edit it now, but I forgot to include chance of blowing the item with a bzel.
Elven 5 to 7:
2 bzel, 1 czel, 1 5 armor - at 400K for the 5 armor (say a really cheap epm) and 400K for the bzels, that's about 1.2M. If the armor is only around 150K, you're under 1M for the 7. Assuming your second 50% chance goes to 7, of course.
or
12 nzel, 6 5 armor - at 400K for the 5 armor and 30K for the nzels, that's 2.4M in armor and 360K in nzels, or about 2.75-2.8M total. At only 150K for the armor, you're looking at 950K in armor and 360K in nzels, or 1.3M total. Either way, it's more expensive than using a bzel.
non-elven 5 to 7:
9 5 armor, 10 bzel (1 in 5 will go to 6, 1 in 5 will go to 7, the rest will blow) - 3.6M in armors at 400K each, 4M in bzels, total 7.6M
or
30 5 armor, 36 nzels - 12M in armors, 900K in nzels, total just under 12M. Bzel wins by a long shot.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by supra on 10/23/02 00:58 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
You say that now but I've blown up 60 pairs of iboots in a row...
um 3 went +5 1 went +6
In fact, if Deja Vu was a person he would beat me up and kick me down a flight of stairs
Thanx Leilo... nice summary.
May I add some additional wishes ^^
What are the safe c-zel, c-dai values, and what are
the chance of blowing those on overenchanted items.
I know its bulls..., because theres no reason to c-zel
an overencanted item (except for some statistical
fiddeling with +5 armors *grin*), but for the sake of
having all info in one threath would be grate. ^^
Cheers,
BlueVision
If an item starts at +3 to +5, you have a 50% chance of increasing by 1 or by 2.
mmmm so what u sayin ? that u cant get +3 on a +3 armor?
if thats what u sayin ur death wrong since some1 on test got +3 with bzel on a +3 pglove
thank you, thank you, thank you for finally clearly and succinctly posting a thread that definitely illustrates the issues of overenchanting.
:]
Correct magician. If you're ECM is already +6, a b-zel is not going to help it go +7 any more than a n-zel.
"1 +5 armor 2 bzels and 1 czel = 1.235mil "
+5 blows 4/5 of the time so wouldnt you need a lot more items?
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You say that now but I've blown up 60 pairs of iboots in a row...
um 3 went +5 1 went +6
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Those are just averages. You could get lucky and need less, or you could get unlucky and need more. The assumption that both Nazh and I made with those was that if you have a 1/5 chance, the first 4 will fail and the 5th will succeed, which would be average luck.
yes but then ur total to make them will always be more because.. "if" doesn't always happen only 1/5 of the time.....
If +5 elf chainmail is b-zeled, is there a chance that it will blow up?
Regarding blessed scrolls of enchantment:
Leilo wrote:
...
If an item starts at +6 to +8, you have a chance of increasing by 1.
...
Hmmm, what is the chance to increase it by 1? Is the chance 50% of increasing it by 1 and the other 50% is blowing it up?
It's hard to believe that b-dais don't increase the chance to overentchant it. I used bdais to make a +8 Yumi and it worked on the first try. I tried it with n-dais and i blew up 3 yumis that way...
No, it means if you are successful the blessed scroll will only give +1. It will still blow at the regular rate.
Huhuuuu... any info on c-zel on overzelled items? ^^
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