Meh, good luck and thank.

[TnRoOoLbL]

For the TLDR crowd skip to the bottom! Wall of text crits, all NPCS DIE!


THE NEGATIVE

Played in 2004 quit when NC did the Account merge/upgrade, around 2007-2008ish.
I kept getting errors on my upgrading status, account expired. 2010 rolls
around so, I signed up on a new account, since I thought my old account was
bugged. I can't name my characters with the same name's, I used before. I had a
level 48-49 mage, 30+knight and item maker elf, dark elf on my old account. I
then signed up again, on my old account, to use my old characters. Suprise,
suprise my old account that I could never upgrade, was upgraded. WOOT!
Characters deleted / missing... I log off my old account, and now I can name
characters on my new account with the old names... haha great. So the character
name's were being held in the server data bank somewhere, just free'd them back
up when I logged into my old account. (well that sucks)


I made a new mage, on my new account, and found the NEW PLAYER items to be meh.
I guess they ROCK if, you have no idea what you are doing and play melee/range.
Magic user items do not help. Unless you have a high enchanted weapon, with
high enchanted armour or the lvl 8-9-10 spells as a mage, any attempt to
melee/range is moot. Starting mages don't melee/range, nor do you have spells,
let alone the MP to cast them to any effect. Let me state this: YOU DO NOT HAVE
HELP, YOU DO NOT HAVE ADENA, YOU DO NOT HAVE YOUR +ITEMS. As a mage level 1-
40ish you don't ever want to melee/range a mop, unless you have help.(HELP=
Spells/High Enchanted Armour/High Enchanted Weapons/Pets or Summons) I know to
get a hunter's bow, tame pets with floating eye meat and farm the easy undead
with silver arrows. I know you can melee using VT to keep you topped off, but
you have to have a decent AC/Weapon to do this. You either build a AC+melee
weapon set or a MP set. I know when you get the mid-top items/spells as a mage,
it gets "stupid" easy to farm/level. The starting items for a mage need
reworking.


So, I start leveling up my mage; cheesing it up to level. I bolt any gold/red
mob and run to the healer, spam the healer's free heal + ebolt. Rinse and
repeat till level 8-12.(depending on drops get the level 2/3 spells) I use the
talking scroll to get flooded with scrolls, that would be great, minus the
level 12 max on most of them. I'm now level 13ish and banished from starting
zones, that I know see have better drops than the outer zones.(cooking
items/gems etc,) I buy a hunter's bow, tame two pets, and spam silver arrows at
everything on Talking Island in the WW or G/Z area.(werewolf/ghoul/zombie)
You are buying haste pots to stay ahead of melee, using orc scout morph and
missing a few shots. The lovely drop rate to stop bots/farmers does nothing,
but kill new players.(level 50+ bot farming iron/mith, yeah right, try
TOI/DIAD/other high level areas, lower drop rate does nothing, trade market +8
-11 items in almost all shops,lol) I scrap up some adena to buy ndai's to kill
faster/take less damage from fast undead.(Elmore's love my high -10 to - 25ish
ac, if I was dumb enough to waste what little adena on nzels, oops starting
gear enchanting? lol, don't think so) I'm level 16-20ish using enchant dex to
hunt TI Dungeon or Chaos Shrine for more law/exp.(Elmore's take to long to kill
with a +0 hunter bow.(who knew?) I start hitting FV/OWL testing out my low
+hunter bow vs horrible MP regen+spell spamming in FV/OWL. I make it to 24+ and
thinking what's the point?


I could have magically found enough nzel's to enchant all my armour, er no wait
I don't have any armour worth enchanting. I would also need ndai's to enchant a
weapon to melee/range/regen with, er no wait I don't have any weapons worth
enchanting. This can't be right, where does all the armour/weapons that my low
level mage should be wearing drop? Oh, it drops from mops over my
gear/spells/adena range. I know, i'll go to the market and buy the low level
items no one needs anymore.(LOL 500k+ for a +1mp regen item, hahaha) Well
aleast, I have a good spot to hunt, even though mops don't drop much, they
should be alot around to kill. Oop's most area's don't have mops for serveral
screens, don't want to have someone AOE farming them. Do you know how many
arrow's / bolts it takes to kill a FV or OWL mop?(to many for a starting mage)
I don't want a hand out, nor should I need one to start from scratch. I've been
killing the same mops since level 1 and the drops/exp are horrible.


When I started/stopped a few times back in 2004 and ended in 2007-2008, I
leveled up new character's to 40+ with less trouble then this. I know there was
more mops in area's to kill, with a higher respawn rate. I started with nothing
and grinded up to my now deleted character level's.(thanks NC) I know all the
above is alot of negative, and I didn't post the starting and leveling
challenge's for ROYAL/KNIGHT/ELF/DarkELF. I had fun leveling up before, I
didn't have a Blood Pledge or high level items to make it easier. I read the
guides and the fansite's for information on what and where stuff dropped. I
revist the same place's and the NERF NERF NERF just kills what joy was left in
a leveing a new character. I didn't have luck on drops nor enchanting, I sold
everything I could to afford +1 over safe items, that I made. The problem now
is, nothing drops to sell. I don't get anymore exp for the few mops left in the
new player area's to make up for the lack of drops, so I can move onto better
hunting areas. I now see why so many left. The bots changed from level 40+s
farming trash to level 50+s farming exp.


The Positive

The new player starting area's have drops you can use to help you with cooking,
or getting your hunter's bow to starting on arrow spamming. The talking scroll
items, are good for the first 1-12ish levels, if melee/range and you kill basic
staring area mops. The sheer amount of new items to craft or upgrade is a huge
plus to long term higher level players. The new hunting grounds offer new
area's to level for higher level players. The fansite's have alot of useful
information and guides on quests/crafting. It seems the forums get replies,
even though it still takes awhile to get things changed/fixed. The player base
that is left seems to help more, if you don't whine for free items or beg. I
think addition of pet racing and fishing are a fun mini-game/break from the
grind.

WHINE WHINE WHINE

Lots of whine and no input on what could be improved? Starting gear goes away
at a certain level, why not make it worth something. The starting armour could
have pluses to hp/mp, regen on hp/mp, more AC for pure melee. Each level you
get get a scroll to enchant the armour or weapon. The starting weapons need to
be the improved for melee/range. Oh noes, the level 1-30 has -40 ac and a +6
weapon, OMG! The starting gear goes away at level 1-30ish and can't be traded.
I don't think a level 1-30 is going to be killing to many Dragon's nor, hunting
in the area's most of the remaining player base hunts. I know this is asked non
stop, but increase the exp from low level monster's or the drops for player's
that are also low level. Turtle Island has a level 30 cap(?), have the
monster's give increased exp, but same drop's, so bot's don't farm it.(since
you can't pvp on Turtle Island{?}) Increase the drop rate on needed items for
low-mid level crafted items.

Don't Really Care

With my old character's now gone, and the drops nerfed to nerfdom, I think i'm
out again. The forums have people that offer advice and help to player's but,
it doesn't work. Why, should someone have to use their time and money on a new
player, when the game should help them at the start?(Hats off, to all of you
that do help ingame) I've never had a promblem with the dev's or ingame
support, you can only do so much with what little NC gives you. I'm also not
really looking to argue with someone on their play style or where to hunt. I
know an elf would be better to start with, but that's wasting time, on a
character you may or may not want to play. I know what spells to use, and what
gear to get, but the adena/drops don't let a new player gear/level up. I know
what glitches mops have to use to your benefit. I hope you do get an increase
in the player base, because over all the game is worth playing.(Sadly, starts
at the later part of mid game) I tried not to make this sound like too much of
a rant, but some of the posts on the forums last almost a month. This should
give some of the older and more wise(****) players, something to tear apart.

TLDR

High level players(50+)/old players gratz, you can start a new character. New
players, you have alot of brick walls to smash threw. To the Devs, thanks for
the information and help you give. I know the player base equals my
opinion>your opinion. (no you can't have my stuff, its all nondrop/tradable!)

[SarahJane]

You must have bad luck. I've met quite a few people who recently started in the last 2 months who have gotten into the flow of things and are making extremely good progress.

You basically wrote a very long winded letter about the same thing every player goes through... cept the part where you keep grinding and gaining money and get better. You seem to have quit before that part.

Dont think this thread will be around past Nyx seeing but gl in whatever you do. Lineage is definately for people with patience and long term committment. Tah-tah.

Edit: I had to reread since your post is ginormous. I agree with you on a few points, the recent change to the drop system is going to hurt many possible new players. Maybe NC hopes "what they dont know wont kill em" will deal with that as in new players havent experienced what the drops were before. I dont think this will work but meh.

Second point, I agree about the starting equipment for mages/elves. The melee guys have what they need, ac, weapon with decent damage. Mages have no regen or mp boosting items. I will admit mages are harder to level from 1-15 but once you start getting the 2nd tier damage spells i.e. sunburst cone of cold mages become power houses. You may not have noticed because it has been so long since you've played but they just made those single target spells cheaper to cast and way more powerful. They did that to ensure mages truly could hunt with magic and now they can.

What I dont agree on is making these new player monsters give more xp. While you hunt these lower leveled monsters you gain money and drops, you level twice as fast you have half as much resources. The xp rate is fine as it is, I started a new dark elf awhile back and gave it nothing from my main account, I wanted to see if in fact it was harder to level a new character. To my surprise I level to 15 extremely fast and had enough to buy a damascus claw and some nzels for my shadow mask from the quest. Purchased a crossbow and went to owl and money came rolling in. I leveled to 30 with no help from my stash and it went pretty quickly. Maybe it's know how and experience, who knows.

I know for a fact in 2004 and before it was much harder to level a new character. You got 2 candles a dagger and a leather jacket no matter what class you were, except elf who got a bow and wooden jacket (ouch! splinters much?).

There was a new player about a month ago who posted claiming he had only been playing 2 weeks and already amassed a +4armor set and +8xbow, yes +8. I was shocked at how easy he made it sound but he didnt even know it lol. He thought he was doing badly, can you believe that? He is now level 50... 6 weeks and level 50.

So while I agree with some I cant agree with all of your post. I think you may have thrown in the towel too soon to make a real judgment about the game. If you are used to WOW or FF11 then you are used to fast leveling and fast money. That is the way those games are designed, for the casual player. People need to understand Lineage is not for casual gamers... at least not right now. And yes because of this exact point many people never make a career out of playing this game.

Hopefully one day NC will realize that and maybe re-vamp the game engine to suite more casual gameplay.

P.S. How did your old characters get deleted? You didnt ask NC support about that? My husband just got his account from 2002 back and everything to the last piece of armor was there.

[xvOVERDOSEvx]

Well I am a new player i am now back for about 30 days. I have a 48 knight Wich i made a iron set all +4 and cop +5 and troll belt and str ami.Wep is +7 kat wich kinda sucks but in 30 days u can not expect much more then that ecspeacilly when a knight char is not considered a char to make alot of money with. Also have around 4m now and have been getting many drops from griffons and ant caves and ramia giving me ndais to sell.

So mabe you just have terrible luck. I am not sure but for not having people hand me cash and gear and starting from scratch i say for using a knight char only that is not bad for about 30 days.

[SarahJane]

I will add this as well. If you truly are new to the game or new comming back you dont even have to beg for anything. Most people I know will happily give you a head start.

I've run across two new players, 1 one brand new the other was a returning player from a long time ago. The new player I hooked up with a good upgrade set from his noob stuff and the returning player, well I just gave him some blessed swords from event to help him out.

[Khaine_KenRahuel]

I think anyone that was a LOA player that hasnt played any of the episode U content and comes back will be in for a rude awaking.

[PyroAmos]

the game is exceedingly rough on new people... I'd never recomend it to new ppl and I'd never start over if I lost my char/gear.

[Khaine_KenRahuel]

I recommended this game to ppl, until this last update.....

I wouldn't waste anyones time recommending a game thats this tough on a returning or new player.

I would normally gear up anyone I could convince to sub, but now im pretty hard pressed to keep my own toons running.

[Ladygrrrr]

I agree i alrdy made a thread i thought about how hard it is on new ppl .XxOverdosexX is doing pretty good for new guy.but not all new guys get it good.ppl are leary of new players as i am starting to be.my Bp is only on invite now.ON loa we have some guy running around tryin to say hes me.or other ppl now since saying he is me didnt work,idk who he is but made me leary of new ppl in my bp lol.LOA ruins ur trust sometimes.But i like to see new ppl come i try hep u wih whatver i can .advice some reds .just wisper me ill see if i can help,

[Protege5]

I think I made my mage 40 in like 1.5 month. Now after three month I am 49. I played a lot during winter break but now in school I play about 2 hours a day. And I started with nothing.

I would still level an elf on the side just for other uses...at least level an elf to level 30, so you get elven t shirt to sell and be able to global while being shop mode.

For mage, get a lastavard staff. I bought mine for 50k, and it gives you +8 mana regen. Mage is hard for sure, and the key to play it is to have another computer surfing internet while you wait for mana. Or yes just hunter bow in OWL is ok.

I started with nothing too, and I still remember I saved money up for 1nzel, and save up again buy another one until I am fully encahnted. That process did take a long time, but if you are hunting as well as high level people, then why even bother to level? The eager to be better kept me forward.

My best advice for you is to start an elf, just to level to level 30, and get the elven t shirt to sell in gtz and leave if there for shop mode. After you sell the elven t shirt you should have enough money to full enchant your mage with basic gear.

Mage takes time, and it will always be like this no matter what level you are. If you are not a patient person, then it is not a class for you.

[TnRoOoLbL]

LoL Grind

Talking Island level 15 max, shelob(sp?) killing everyone, anyone rocking a dama was king. Later on no TOI, so everyone's in DV or FV, lots of room and mops, er no you can't click without targeting someone. I think FI was new, or not to old, so the top player's were fighting each other more than the mops. The grind used to start at 49 trying to get to 50 so you can get a faster morph, then hit 52 and stand around in DK morph.(kidding, stand around in FV talking smack, since the grind was so bad) The lag/random disconnect mop was the number one forum topic, dropped all the best gear, killed the best players. I grind more from 1-30 on my mage now, than I did from 40-49 long ago. Having a horrible grind from level 1-max level, is a great way to get someone to stick around.(let them hit the grind in stages, not right of the bat, you'll lose more than you gain) I used to know when the grind kicked in, now its been moved all the way back to level 1.(pointless)

My epeen> your epeen(man this gets old)

I started with a knight, an in 30 days, I had all +7 Gear, a level 45 mage with +4 gear and all the spells in game, minus decay pot/destroy/meteor.(all the new mage spells were not ingame, firewall/holywalk etc.) I'm wasn't lucky on drops, nor was I a better player, the game just had DROPS/MOPS to kill. When I played, mops dropped items, so you could start with your 2 candles and your leather jacket. I think iron/mith was around 1/2k each.(iron maybe 750ish, mith 1500+) I know you couldn't kill something without getting adena and an item. I know everything swarmed you, leading to running around getting even more mops on you. I know gems rained from the skie's off ants/lizardmen/gnolls, so buying starting gear wasn't an issue. I know bas's dropped 1m+/- HTQD that new players could sell.(drop rate wasn't bad for risk/and drops from mops around bas's spawn) I never saw SKT without the town covered in mops or drops. Pining or pulling all of the desert into SKT was non-stop. I know fire egg's spawned in 4's and Black Knights in packs of 6's, now its 2's for both? I know hunting in SKT4 or FV would equal a nzel/ndai or maybe a bzel/bdai.(skip a day on the bdai/bzel dropping, unless you hunted 4+hours) I know DI came out and OMG the mops had colors to let you know what to kill and they dropped ndai/nzels for almost no risk. I know almost one stat pot dropped often enough at the start with everyone hunting the easy new freindly bosses/trash mops.(I think they got buffed later on, that a lvl 1 or lvl 80 bee?) I could gear up a knight without buying anything from trash players just left on the ground in towns.(not BB killing gear but, gnoll/dwarf farming gear) I know, I never had to do the horrible farming of OWL for exp, on my old character's that so many now auto reply with when asked "where exp?" post's. I know on THE old farming GOD CLASS ELF, you learned B2S and that was the I WIN BUTTON.(yes, its been nerfed) I know I skipped alot of easy farmable mops:crabmen/crust's/elek's/cerb's etc.

Again: Great Game!

Level 45+ to end game is great, you have bosses all over to try and kill, more items to craft than you know what to do with. The game has more hunting area's so you can grind away from other player's. The Death Matches now called something else, happen more often it seems. The markets are flooded with +8 or better items across the board. The cooking buff's give you alittle boost with little adena investmet.(+1 ac on that +9item=10-50m or more, you can get +2/3 ac from a cooking buff for what under 1k adena?) Repeat: The game has pet racing and fishing to let you take a break from the grind.(forgot about the haunted house) The amounst of pets you can level up or evolve is just crazy.(what, I can put armor/weapons on them, insane) That boring pledge house now has items you can buy for it? I'm not sure what you use them for, but you can buy flowers, FLOWERS!(PK someome and drop/taunt them with a bouqet(sp?) I think you can use the chat window's at any earlier level, not sure.(U MAD, YOU CRY? Bat or Lgrrr is not Bot or Lgrrrr, KEKE, 555, no idea what's going on but, its in COLORS!)

I know it all :P(this attitude gets old aslo)

I posted that I didn't try leveling up the other classes, just the mage. My post was on starting a mage, from NOTHING. I posted ELF is what you start with, now to grind horrible drop rates to build another character. I pointed out having to start a character you dislike, to make the character you want to play is ???. I like that you have to earn the best items. I don't dislike the grind, at high mid to end game, you can do it solo.(what I need other25-100 button masher's to get my LOOTZ?, no thanks) I dislike the pointless grind at level 1-40ish. This grind didn't exist almost 6 years ago, and now it does. You don't kill any bosses at level 1-40, unless you have the best gear ingame. What damage does a level 1-40 do to this game?(NONE) I don't know of anything you can do at the start levels to even threaten a level 45+ character. I know a new player is not stealing the drops from you in DIAD or TOI or stealing your boss kills. I know, that new player most buying that +8 or better item you needed, with their under 1m adena. I recall when DE's first came out you could dice dagger and final burn someone, but that has long since been nerfed. "Working on a new idea and need feedback" posted by NYX, level's 1-45. When I read the guide for mage, make sure it includes, Roll ELF, farm trash till level 48ish, then roll mage. In my opinion, a new player starting out has it worse, now than in the past. I will now state a FACT, drops/exp from mops now, are worse than in the past. I know before the forum upgrade changes, Capt used to post what the Flag's for drop and exp were.(They were HIGHER, might of been raised by 1 or a .5, but that better than nothing) I think hard ac is/was removed and soft ac is/was in now.(that makes it easier?) I know dragons had to be kept from spawning because people could almost solo them.(long ago)

Thanks to the truthful players.

Thank you: Khaine_KenRahuel, PyroAmos, Ladygrrrr. I like to see people bluntly state what's what. Thanks for all the charity work you do to help new player's. I don't like help, nor would I accept any.(bullheaded stubborness) I don't care about bots, or what another player does ingame to get ahead. I do care about putting a pointless brick wall infront of a new player. I have yet to see someone not request NC advertise more or ask about what needs to be done to get new players, and keep them. Alot of people don't post on game forums, due to it being mostly a waste of time. These same people just let their time run out and the reason's for them leaving, stay unchanged and unnoticed. xvOVERDosevx, Protege5 and SarahJane congrats, just know that you would of had 2-5 times what you have now on you NEW character, if things had stayed the same.(may you continue to have good luck) To all the quest readers, I hope you also enjoy the game and have great success on your characters.

Thanks NYX or hidden mods for not deleting my post.(er might not have read it yet, lal's) Meh, good luck and thank.*(thanks*, bah owell, to lazy to edit)
I'll stop repling so it doesn't seem like i'm flaming/trolling, just sad to see the start/begining change so much.

[Protege5]

oh ok so your point was that the game should be more friendly to new players...that I agree lol. It's a long post I jumped around reading and didn't know you actually know how to play already.

Oh well, the drop rate has been lowered all across the board, so I still feel quite justified being a lvl 49 poor noob, but compared to the last time I played, it is probably still easier now.

I don't like easy games, but yeah I would hate it if we don't get new players because the game is too hard to start fresh.

and making elven t shirt is just a short cut for money. (plus you get a good salesman, you know you need it) I do think mage is generally underpowered compared to other classes though, but I don't want to see mages everywhere either.

and...I think you can probably make another 3 levels with the time you type these posts...

[Berrie]

If ppl are really new to the game they won't know if drops were nerfed or not. They don't know if it's hard because they don't know the game enough to think it's hard. We all started new at some point. If anything there are hardly any new players so the real new players won't have as much competition in hunting grounds.

The Loa drops didn't all go away. It's still A LOT better than before we got Loa ruleset. I believe FV and DVC at least seems the same and OWL too. I haven't really hunted alot of places so not sure of other places. But the Ken and Dep players should remember how really bad the drops were before Loa rules. It seemed like 2 out of 5 mops and Bosses used to drop nothing. And most didn't drop adena. Drops are still very good considering how bad it was. Just not as good before this last update. Keep hunting and as you level money will follow.

[xvOVERDOSEvx]

This post is really more of a rantby the looks like of it to me on how a game is to hard for people to get started as a new player. In my opinion as a new player I really think the game is fair for new players and also belive this post should probably be removed due to the fact if new players read it they well be alot less likely to join when really I belive they all would get along just fine. Many are willing to help out new players and even if they dont just gives the players something to work for and be proud of that first new wep they saved for.

[Kikr]

I'm glad to help the noobs break into this game. Heck, when I started, I got loaned 3.3m for a katana. That was some serious money for me at the time. If anything, I say let this post stay around, so that anyone that needs a leg up in the game can post about it on here. Doesn't seem like this guy wanted any help, and went it alone.

[Beavis]

All I can say is that when I started during Beta days, I was a knight in SKT hunting goblins and orcs. And progress was slow when you consider I didnt even know what a haste pot was, because the mops I could hunt didnt even drop any. I had to be careful not to venture near the desert, cuz I couldnt outrun the giant ants... Do you have any idea how long it took me to gain a nzel or ndai and actually use it?

Compared to what we have now; a starting area where the first 5 levels are free, free hastes, good drops to start out with etc etc... A lot has changed for the better. In my opinion, whether or not this has anything to do with other mmo's, we got spoiled during the years.

Yes its a good thing that things have changed, otherwise Lineage wouldnt have gained any new players during those days. But if youre an old player from before Hidden Valley/Singing Island, make the comparison just for the fun of it.